Posts by FatFreek 2005

32

If the Watch Tower Society discontinued shunning.... new survey!!

by cedars in

i'm pleased to announce that juan viejo2 has launched a new mini-survey on jwsurvey.org.

the survey tackles the premise that the society might one day abandon shunning (at least between family members) and asks: what effect might this have on us?.

the survey is primarily targeted at df'd/da'd and active jws, although there is one question applicable to all, which asks simply whether you agree with the practice of shunning.. there are only a handful of questions, so if you feel inclined, please do visit and take the survey on the link below:.

FatFreek 2005

Whether to abandon shunning of family members is a touchy topic that may have raised its ugly head at the policy table of the current governing body.

I have mixed feelings on whether they may change policy. Here's why it wouldn't surprise me.

Thanks to the internet, fence-sitting Jehovah's Witnesses learn that are other options. Instead of playing the game Watchtower wants them to play -- "If you agree, stay in. If you don't agree, get out, but make sure and tell us first. That way we can announce a quarantine so you become off-limits to even your relatives who no longer live with you. Your influence to the rest of the flock will be extremely curtailed."

The fade option many are choosing nowadays is not easy but it is undoubtedly causing the governing body great consternation. It is where the fader chooses to stay below the GB's radar and not declare his reversed allegiance to Watchtower. Instead of being quarantined, the fader is free to mingle and talk and enjoy a convivial family meal or get-together. The fader can do normal family favors -- fix a child's automobile, paint a parent's living room, assist a niece on her algebra -- thereby continuing to properly earn respect from those he loves. Worse, however, in the collective mind of the governing body, is where the fader subtly uses this well-earned respect to show certain loved ones the flaws in Watchtower teachings, their massive contradictions, their dishonesty and coverups.

No it is not easy for the fader to occasionally attend a boring meeting, fake a door knock when it's his turn, force a smile during those infrequent but disturbing shepherding calls.

The governing body may someday decide to somehow bring these faders out in the open -- let them declare the fact that they no longer wish to be members but not punitively mark them them as respects family membership. This single act could hinder the fader's subtle sabotage . Sure, the fader's attempts to undermine Watchtower may not cease completely. Without the penalty of being shunned, however, much of the fader's anger would be blunted. Who cares? Let them figure it out for themselves, he may reason.

A change in current policy would affect membership numbers. They would certainly decline but the GB could feel that those remaining would be comprised of mostly valid flock members, not wolves in sheep clothing.

Family members under this revised policy would now be on guard, knowing where the former member stands. The former member would still be quarantined, but only in limited fashion as respects family members not living under the same roof.

Sure, the fader may be a shunned and marked person by others in the congregation but he can still take his mother grocery shopping followed by a relaxing soup and sandwich luncheon before returning her to her home. Family gatherings would no longer be off-limits.

A change in policy remains to be seen.

Family is one thing but there are other loved ones, long-developed friendships which the fader wants to be able to continue embracing in association. The fade option will continue as long as shunning continues.

Len

41

Alteration in the German Watchtower about spousal physical abuse

by slimboyfat in

i noticed that the german edition of the study watchtower for today didn't include the phrase about the husband "hitting" the sister.

instead it just says that he became ferociously angry, which need not imply physical abuse.

i wonder if the german translator altered it off his own back or was instructed, and how other language editions compare.

FatFreek 2005

Was the article in German published on the same date as the one in English? If the English version was released earlier then it could have served as a Trial Baloon of sorts. Negative reaction by the english audience could have swayed headquarters into altering their orders to the German translators.

Fats

33

Nathan Knorr's own circuit assembly badge?

by FatFreek 2005 in

for what it's worth, the following image was sent to me in an anonymous email so i can't testify to its authenticity.

she (or he, since it wasn't signed) says he/she was one of the bethel housekeepers and spotted the name tag in a waste basket.

at that time, the early 70's, knorr was regarded by many, including this person, (though disliked by even many bethelites) as god-like.

FatFreek 2005

Hi SST,

Good observation about Rutherford. Only recently did I discover his admonition to youngsters from the pages of Watchtower that was contemporary to the 1942 book Children. There, he advised them to use the remaining days of school vacation following the convention to witness to and study with their childhood friends and acquaintences for some 6 hours per day.

Len

20

Inquiry to my website: What to do about 16 yr old converting to JWs? I will send family JWN link

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

i received the following email today at my website, www.watchtowerdocuments.com.

please help this loving uncle with some advice:.

hello, i dont know if anyone can help me with this but i thought i would give it a shot.

FatFreek 2005

Dear Loving Uncle,

By this time you've already received some very good advice. I don't want to overlook this piece -- an 11 minute read that will give her several things, quite easy to comprehend -- to think about. It's THE GREAT WATCHTOWER CONTRADICTION.

Wishing you the very best.

Len

33

Nathan Knorr's own circuit assembly badge?

by FatFreek 2005 in

for what it's worth, the following image was sent to me in an anonymous email so i can't testify to its authenticity.

she (or he, since it wasn't signed) says he/she was one of the bethel housekeepers and spotted the name tag in a waste basket.

at that time, the early 70's, knorr was regarded by many, including this person, (though disliked by even many bethelites) as god-like.

FatFreek 2005

Hi BOTR,

Do you mean he did it a very gruff manner?

I would have to say the word condescending would more properly describe his manner. Hey, he was the big cheese at that time. When you think about it, from the early 40's when he took over, there were very few people with whom he had a conversation that he would feel is at his level of intellect, power, prestige, etc.

Even before I left the org some 20 years later I'd heard of his public belittling of Bethel brothers at the dinner table where hundreds could listen in on his chastisement of some Bethelite for some rules infraction.

One thing I learned from my parents is they kept my own discipline private and at home.

Someone kept this all these years b/c it has Knorr's signature. Wow. Talk about sick.

Like I said earlier, Knorr was regarded by many, including this person, (though disliked by even many Bethelites) as god-like.

Fats

33

Nathan Knorr's own circuit assembly badge?

by FatFreek 2005 in

for what it's worth, the following image was sent to me in an anonymous email so i can't testify to its authenticity.

she (or he, since it wasn't signed) says he/she was one of the bethel housekeepers and spotted the name tag in a waste basket.

at that time, the early 70's, knorr was regarded by many, including this person, (though disliked by even many bethelites) as god-like.

FatFreek 2005

Hi BOTR,

Sounds like you and I are contemporaries. I was baptized in '56. At the '57 District Assy in Baltimore I was gung ho and wanted to go to Bethel in the worst way. One brother Bobby Anneheim, from New Bedford, Mass, was working in Bethel at the time and heard about my feelings. He asked me if I'd like to meet Bro Knorr (knowing that I would hear the party line) and I was thrilled. He took this 16-yr-old (me) to one of those offices beneath the stadium seats and I had my 4 minute audience. Wait -- I was the audience and he was the speaker. "No", he said, "finish that last year of high school -- then send in your application." It was the harsh, scolding manner that he used during that meeting that I remember most.

Fats

33

Nathan Knorr's own circuit assembly badge?

by FatFreek 2005 in

for what it's worth, the following image was sent to me in an anonymous email so i can't testify to its authenticity.

she (or he, since it wasn't signed) says he/she was one of the bethel housekeepers and spotted the name tag in a waste basket.

at that time, the early 70's, knorr was regarded by many, including this person, (though disliked by even many bethelites) as god-like.

FatFreek 2005

Here's the only reference I can find to that assembly discourse. Beginning in September of 1970, it may have been given for the following six months.

A new circuit assembly program is scheduled to begin in September. We believe you will find it most informative and upbuilding. The public talk will be “Who Will Conquer the World in the 1970’s?” Our Kingdom Ministry, 7/70 p. 3 Announcements

As to Knorr and his little buddy, they were both still going strong in early 1971 as noted by the following:

In this country of about four million people, 80 percent of whom are Moslem, 178 of Jehovah’s witnesses carry on their preaching activity. The assembly was not advertised, but was in the nature of a private gathering. The peak attendance was 325. Both the president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, N. H. Knorr, and the vice-president, F. W. Franz, appeared several times on the program, speaking through interpreters. The Watchtower, 1971 2/15 p. 123 Is Unity Possible Among All Ethnic Groups? Fats

33

Nathan Knorr's own circuit assembly badge?

by FatFreek 2005 in

for what it's worth, the following image was sent to me in an anonymous email so i can't testify to its authenticity.

she (or he, since it wasn't signed) says he/she was one of the bethel housekeepers and spotted the name tag in a waste basket.

at that time, the early 70's, knorr was regarded by many, including this person, (though disliked by even many bethelites) as god-like.

FatFreek 2005

Hi VM,

If I hear from that person again I'll try to remember to ask that question. However, several days ago I asked a few other questions via return email but have not heard back.

Fats

33

Nathan Knorr's own circuit assembly badge?

by FatFreek 2005 in

for what it's worth, the following image was sent to me in an anonymous email so i can't testify to its authenticity.

she (or he, since it wasn't signed) says he/she was one of the bethel housekeepers and spotted the name tag in a waste basket.

at that time, the early 70's, knorr was regarded by many, including this person, (though disliked by even many bethelites) as god-like.

FatFreek 2005

Hi donny,

That date, 1977, gave me a few chills. In those early months I had resigned as elder but hadn't yet given notice of quitting altogether. When the presiding overseer, a nice fellow, came to me, last minute, about giving a talk at a nearby congregation (Ames, Ia) I tried to back out. I re-looked over that outline, however, and since it was one that didn't offend me at the time I consented. I went by myself, not bringing my family -- who, by the way, didn't know of my feelings at that time -- and gave the talk with horrendous guilt feelings. It was the last time I set foot in a kingdom hall.

33

Nathan Knorr's own circuit assembly badge?

by FatFreek 2005 in

for what it's worth, the following image was sent to me in an anonymous email so i can't testify to its authenticity.

she (or he, since it wasn't signed) says he/she was one of the bethel housekeepers and spotted the name tag in a waste basket.

at that time, the early 70's, knorr was regarded by many, including this person, (though disliked by even many bethelites) as god-like.

FatFreek 2005

For what it's worth, the following image was sent to me in an anonymous email so I can't testify to its authenticity. She (or he, since it wasn't signed) says he/she was one of the Bethel housekeepers and spotted the name tag in a waste basket. At that time, the early 70's, Knorr was regarded by many, including this person, (though disliked by even many Bethelites) as god-like. The person said that he/she had thought for the last few years of placing it on eBay to fetch a few bucks. Instead, the person thought it would be of greater service to simply share the scanned image. This person left the organization completely as his/her contract expired a few years later. Fats.